Coming Clean About Tidying (Part 2)

Speaker	Timecode	Transcript
Victor	00:27:00	For example, you know, let's say if you've been wearing a mask all day, you've been out in the sun, it’s been hot and sweaty, and you're frustrated. But you know that it's important to keep your mask on and you do so, and you come across someone without a mask and it's very possible that you start thinking that way.
Victor	00:40:00	Hold on. I've been putting up with all this all day. Why can't you do it too? And so, that limits our interpretation, maybe the person is just, I don’t know, wiping their nose, you know, there're so many other possibilities. But because we are in that state of mind, we interpret things in a certain way. And in doing so, we'd also limit our range of responses.
Victor	00:59:00	So we might start thinking that they're inconsiderate. They don't even look Singaporean, maybe, I don't know if we talk about xenophobia. Or you might post something on social media that you might regret later. So those are some of the really real world outcomes.
Cynthia	01:11:00	So what you’re saying is that a negative frame of mind can cause some very surprisingly seemingly unrelated consequences with very far reaching impact, right?
Cynthia	01:20:00	It seems that some people seem to naturally deal with unexpected situations better than others though.
Cynthia	01:25:00	So how much of this do you think boils down to their natural-born personality versus their grooming or their training?
Victor	01:32:00	It's almost a trick question when you hear nature and nurture, right?
Victor	01:34:00	The answer is always nature and nurture. And I think one challenge is also how do you tease out the difference between nature and nurture? So if you want to study siblings, for example, they might share the same environment, but they also share the same genetic material to some extent. So I think that's difficult. Right?
Victor	01:48:00	Gender roles, for example, there is a biological basis, but it’s alsobeen reinforced bysocietal standards and socialisation. I buy my boys trucks, you know. But on a nature front, obviously there are some traits that have been associated with the ability to cope.
Victor	02:06:00	So one of them is optimism, expertise and skills regarding the situation. Also, relevant resources, such as money and time. But I think something also quite important is being in the right nurturing environment. So it’s no secret that social media algorithms are putting all of us in echo chambers.
Victor	02:23:00	If you were in a telegram group, some conspiracy theory telegram group, then you really are putting yourself up to be nurtured in a very negative way.
Cynthia	02:31:00	It sounds like what you're saying is that even for the parts that we can control, the nurture aspect, we are able to set ourselves up for both positive as well as negative nurturing. So if we wanted to rig it positively, how do we set ourselves up for more positive nurturing?
Victor	02:45:00	We can approach the problem by addressing the emotions and also the problem. So there’re the emotion-focused strategies and then the problem-focused ones. So I think a successful approach would incorporate both.
Victor	02:56:00	If you think about the uncertainty that's brought about by COVID-19, really what's happening, some researchers suggest that there is a decreased certainty of positive outcomes and an increased certainty in negative outcomes. And it is this sort of interplay that induces fear and anxiety.
Victor	03:14:00	So if you think of it in this light, then one way to regain our control is to really think of how we perceive the likelihood of positive outcomes occurring. I think a really cool study that was conducted, got participants to either brainstorm some of the outcomes, some of the goals that have been enabled by the pandemic.
Victor	03:31:00	And then the other group was asked to think of ways in which the pandemic prevented them from achieving their goals. So no surprises there. The group who was asked to think about the positive outcomes, or how their goals have been enabled, really had a much higher satisfaction, much better outcomes, than a group who was asked to focus on the negative outcomes.
Cynthia	03:48:00	So be careful what kind of questions you ask yourself, right?
Victor	03:52:00	Yes, that's right. And as part of that is this idea of positive reframing. If you think about it today, we’re much better parents, we're much better cooks, we're much better bakers.
Victor	04:00:00	We’re much better programmers, painters, musicians than we were two years ago. So I think that's one. So it's a really positive reframing. The second, I think, is really trying to reduce the certainty or the perceived certainty of negative outcomes. One way to do that is really being careful with your sources.
Victor	04:18:00	If you are careful with your sources, often, they’re more objective and not scaremongering. So often you're going to feel that the perceived outcomes, negative outcomes are not that certain, I think. The third way is really to, sort of, going back to the KonMari method.
Victor	04:33:00	I think the KonMari method, again, is so attractive because it offers structure and rituals. And that's what you can actually do yourself. So, for example, if you think about work-life separation, one thing you could do is you could maintain strict work hours. We're going to need organisations to help, right?
Victor	04:48:00	We're going to need bosses. We're going to need managers. We're going to leaders to say, okay, this person's on leave. Please don't bother them. After a certain hour, don't expect a reply to your email. So we need some organisational support behind us. But individually we can really maintain our, you know, we can try to maintain strict work hours.
Victor	05:07:00	That also means adhering to a fixed lunch period. The start and the end time, don't expand that, don't contract that. So that's one. I know we're all in a sort of a t-shirt and sweatpants kind of mood now, you know, our wardrobe has changed, but it's also useful to dress up for work.
Victor	05:21:00	Even if only for zoom calls. There's a body of research suggesting that how we dress really changes our psychology and how we behave. And that would definitely help with this work-life separation. The last final tip I think I have would be just using different devices for work and play.
Victor	05:37:00	If it's a work laptop, keep it exclusively for work. And so that the association, the mental associations, with your work laptop is work. And then with your iPad, for example, is just play. I think that helps with that separation as well.
Cynthia	05:49:00	Thanks. So questions that you ask yourself and creating structure and rituals, they’ve been very helpful tips. But what might be some other strategies that would maybe even shape us as a community or a society in the future?
Victor	06:01:00	I think it's really important to think about the future. Because we are told that COVID-19 is just one of many future pandemics. At the policy level, I think government bodies are really getting much better at communicating with the public.
Victor	06:14:00	The health minister was talking about the need to have simplified COVID-19 protocols. And really simplified is a really important thing here. There's this idea that if we want people to comply, we want people to follow, we want people to understand instructions, guidance has to be simple. So that’s one.
Victor	06:30:00	So you see that in terms of, you know, the ads that we see, very visually simple advisory. What if you have this, what should you do? So it's a very step-by-step guide. So I think one tool or one strategy that will help us for the future is just being able to communicate messages, health messages and all these crisis messages much better.
Victor	06:49:00	We have also seen ministers appearing with local celebrities. We have seen Phua Chu Kang rapping. All of this, I think, reduces the psychological distance between us and them. If we see the minister, no offence, but, maybe we don't feel that close.
Victor	07:04:00	But if I see Phua Chu Kang, it's low stakes, it's fun. It's sort of part of my daily TV viewing. So that distance is reduced, and I'm more likely to be persuaded or listen in. And that, really, is this idea of nudges and behavioural insights.
Victor	07:18:00	So how messages are framed, its psychological effects, and COVID-19 if you think about it, has been an opportunity to advance our understanding and application of nudges and behavioural insights. And I think that, if you ask me, has been one of the most powerful tools that we've developed over COVID-19 and that will help in the future.
Cynthia	07:37:00	Maybe every generation thinks that they're the ones who live in the most curious of times. So it's been really fascinating to hear some simple tips and tricks. How we can positively reframe situations to regain a sense of control. Even within our own spheres of influence, even if wider conditions are beyond our own personal control.
Cynthia	07:56:00	And thanks for also sharing strategies for behavioural nudging at a societal level. Victor, I wish you all the best in your study of the human condition. Once again, thanks for joining me on the show.

Coming Clean About Tidying (Part 2)

TranscriptSpeakers Names: Dr Victor Seah, Cynthia Chang

Speaker

Timecode

Transcript

Victor

00:27:00

Victor

00:40:00

Victor

00:59:00

So we might start thinking that they're inconsiderate. They don't even look Singaporean, maybe, I don't know if we talk about xenophobia. Or you might post something on social media that you might regret later. So those are some of the really real world outcomes.

Cynthia

01:11:00

So what you’re saying is that a negative frame of mind can cause some very surprisingly seemingly unrelated consequences with very far reaching impact, right?

Cynthia

01:20:00

It seems that some people seem to naturally deal with unexpected situations better than others though.

Cynthia

01:25:00

So how much of this do you think boils down to their natural-born personality versus their grooming or their training?

Victor

01:32:00

It's almost a trick question when you hear nature and nurture, right?

Victor

01:34:00

Victor

01:48:00

Gender roles, for example, there is a biological basis, but it’s alsobeen reinforced bysocietal standards and socialisation. I buy my boys trucks, you know. But on a nature front, obviously there are some traits that have been associated with the ability to cope.

Victor

02:06:00

Victor

02:23:00

If you were in a telegram group, some conspiracy theory telegram group, then you really are putting yourself up to be nurtured in a very negative way.

Cynthia

02:31:00

It sounds like what you're saying is that even for the parts that we can control, the nurture aspect, we are able to set ourselves up for both positive as well as negative nurturing. So if we wanted to rig it positively, how do we set ourselves up for more positive nurturing?

Victor

02:45:00

We can approach the problem by addressing the emotions and also the problem. So there’re the emotion-focused strategies and then the problem-focused ones. So I think a successful approach would incorporate both.

Victor

02:56:00

If you think about the uncertainty that's brought about by COVID-19, really what's happening, some researchers suggest that there is a decreased certainty of positive outcomes and an increased certainty in negative outcomes. And it is this sort of interplay that induces fear and anxiety.

Victor

03:14:00

Victor

03:31:00

Cynthia

03:48:00

So be careful what kind of questions you ask yourself, right?

Victor

03:52:00

Yes, that's right. And as part of that is this idea of positive reframing. If you think about it today, we’re much better parents, we're much better cooks, we're much better bakers.

Victor

04:00:00

Victor

04:18:00

If you are careful with your sources, often, they’re more objective and not scaremongering. So often you're going to feel that the perceived outcomes, negative outcomes are not that certain, I think. The third way is really to, sort of, going back to the KonMari method.

Victor

04:33:00

Victor

04:48:00

Victor

05:07:00

That also means adhering to a fixed lunch period. The start and the end time, don't expand that, don't contract that. So that's one. I know we're all in a sort of a t-shirt and sweatpants kind of mood now, you know, our wardrobe has changed, but it's also useful to dress up for work.

Victor

05:21:00

Even if only for zoom calls. There's a body of research suggesting that how we dress really changes our psychology and how we behave. And that would definitely help with this work-life separation. The last final tip I think I have would be just using different devices for work and play.

Victor

05:37:00

If it's a work laptop, keep it exclusively for work. And so that the association, the mental associations, with your work laptop is work. And then with your iPad, for example, is just play. I think that helps with that separation as well.

Cynthia

05:49:00

Thanks. So questions that you ask yourself and creating structure and rituals, they’ve been very helpful tips. But what might be some other strategies that would maybe even shape us as a community or a society in the future?

Victor

06:01:00

I think it's really important to think about the future. Because we are told that COVID-19 is just one of many future pandemics. At the policy level, I think government bodies are really getting much better at communicating with the public.

Victor

06:14:00

Victor

Transcript

Speakers Names: Dr Victor Seah, Cynthia Chang